The Project Gutenberg eBook of The Bloudy Tenent of Persecution for Cause of Conscience Discussed and Mr. Cotton's Letter Examined and Answered, by Roger Williams CHAP. LXXIII. Luther’s testimony in this case discussed. CHAP. LXXIII. Luther’s testimony in this case discussed. Peace. “The like answer,” saith he,[191] “may be returned to Luther, whom you next allege. “First. That the government of the civil magistrate extendeth no further than over the bodies and goods of their subjects, not over their souls; and, therefore, they may not undertake to give laws unto the souls and consciences of men. “Secondly. That the church of Christ doth not use the arm of secular power to compel men to the true profession of the truth, for this is to be done with spiritual weapons, whereby Christians are to be exhorted, not compelled. But this,” saith he, “hindereth not that Christians sinning against light of faith and conscience, may justly be censured by the church with excommunication, and by the civil sword also, in case they shall corrupt others to the perdition of their souls.” Truth. I answer, in this joint confession of the answerer with Luther, to wit, that the government of the civil magistrate extendeth no further than over the bodies and goods of their subjects, not over their souls: who sees not what a clear testimony from his own mouth and pen is given, to wit, that either the spiritual and church estate, the preaching of the word, and the gathering of the church, the baptism of it, the ministry, government, and administrations thereof, belong to the civil body of the commonweal, that is, to the bodies and goods of men, which seems monstrous to imagine? Or else that the civil magistrate cannot, without exceeding the bounds of his office, meddle with those spiritual affairs?[192] Mr. Cotton’s positions evidently proved contradictory to themselves. Again, necessarily must it follow, that these two are contradictory to themselves, to wit,— The magistrates’ power extends no further than the bodies and goods of the subject, and yet— The magistrate must punish Christians for sinning against the light of faith and conscience, and for corrupting the souls of men. The Father of lights make this worthy answerer, and all that fear him, to see their wandering in this case: not only from his fear, but also from the light of reason itself, their own convictions and confessions. Secondly. In his joint confession with Luther, that the church doth not use the secular power to compel men to the faith and profession of the truth, he condemneth, as before I have observed,— First. His former implication, viz., that they may be compelled when they are convinced of the truth of it. Secondly. Their own practice who suffer no man of any different conscience and worship to live in their jurisdiction, except that he depart from his own exercise of religion and worship, differing from the worship allowed of in the civil state, yea, and also actually submit to come to their church. Hearing of the word of God in a church estate a part of God’s worship. Which, however it is coloured over with this varnish, viz., that men are compelled no further than unto the hearing of the word, unto which all men are bound, yet it will appear, that teaching and being taught in a church estate is a church worship, as true and proper a church worship as the supper of the Lord, Acts ii. 46. Secondly. All persons, papist and protestant, that are conscientious, have always suffered upon this ground especially, that they have refused to come to each other’s church or meeting.